what the heck
What was the reason behind the naming order change?
Unlike SAO's wikia page, which at least had a poll to determine whether characters with Japanese names would have their names spelled in Eastern naming order (LASTNAME Firstname) or Western naming order (Firstname Lastname), it seems this change happened out of the blue. Also it seems odd that characters whose names are referred to in Eastern naming order in-universe in Japanese (such as Naoto Kurogane) keep the western naming order here (Naoto Kurogane instead of KUROGANE Naoto). The only character whose name is spelled in Eastern naming order in English is Yuuki Terumi because Yuuki Terumi is said in Eastern Order (thus YUUKI Terumi). Additionally Hazama is actually a family name (thus HAZAMA and HAZAMA Honoka as Honoka is a given name).
- Hi! We have a wiki discord where we discussed the changes before implementing them, but the format we chose has to do with recent (as of January 2020) legal proceedings regarding how Japanese names should be written in the Latin alphabet (Romaji). Several major publications (Economist, Nikkei, NHK) are in the process of swapping over to this format or have already swapped over to this format, and Wikipedia has shown intent to swap over as well once the change is more widespread.
- This format (LASTNAME Firstname) had previously been suggested by Japan's Cultural Affairs Agency, and finally won support though governmental decree. The Japanese CAA has asked that all foreign entities respect this new format, and as such I have initiated the change here within our wiki now, rather than in a few years. If you would like, I could direct you to some reading on this. This change ONLY effects staff, such as artists and voice actors credited in Japanese.
- Why the names of characters is written in western order is because of the way they're presented in Japanese, in the original script. All names with the = sign in them (ナオト＝クロガネ) are presented in western name order, in both Japanese and English, even while the script may refer to "Kisaragi-shosa" (Major Kisaragi) separately. We will not be changing the capitalization either, for the sake of clarity and consistency with the way names are presented in the work of media. Very few names in the entirety of BlazBlue are presented in eastern name order, while many of the XBlaze characters are- But for the sake of internal page consistency we will not change these.
- Finally, I would like to offer two small personal corrections- Yuuki Terumi is presented in game in western order, (ユウキ＝テルミ), and as such Terumi is his last name. Hazama Honoka has never been canonically confirmed as being one name, and Corporal Honoka has been referred to in-script as "Honoka-gochou" in the same way Jin Kisaragi has been referred to as "Kisaragi-shosa", leading to the implication that Honoka is also a last name.
- I see. I wonder when exactly was it that this change was discussed at there before finally being implemented.
- Sure direct me to it.
- Concerning Terumi, from what I heard, MORI said that Yuuki Terumi is in Eastern order and not western order (thus YUUKI Terumi) so that's where I got that Terumi's name was said in Eastern order (in both Japanese and English).
- We discussed it a couple of times before deciding to push for the changes, to standardize it as we have a new surge of content relating to Blazblue Alternative Dark War.
- Here's some selected reading about it, in English Nikkei, Language Magazine, Archive.is link of the relevant article from The Economist
- To further clarify, we're using LASTNAME Firstname for credits and first introduction on the page, and subsequent usages of the name will have regular capitalization, eg- Lastname.
Text corrections for BBDW
Hi! Sorry for bringing up that list of text differences which ended up in a way I didn't intend it to be. The reason why I didn't try to apply them myself was to avoid cluttering/littering wiki with possible pointless corrections. I don't know Japanese so for me it's hardly doable to know if there is any significance between current and actual values. Some changes might be just typos and nitpicking which no one would care about, some might be important and require corresponding changes for romaji and translations, so dumping all those in one pile might end up being a pain to go through. That's why I went for the list so someone would check it first and take only what is actually useful because to me it doesn't seem like wiki diff output is that convenient to compare Japanese side by side. I can apply those changes myself if those are good to have.
What about vague mention of missing romaji, it's weird, I was really under impression that there were 5+ characters like while I was comparing raw page source but probably due to some formatting matters for old characters I was tricked with some false positive results. Anon (talk) 17:12, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
- Hey there! No problem, sometimes intent gets lost when things are getting passed around indirectly. I understand where you're coming from with that list now. Feel free to just toss things on the talk pages to me directly if you need another pair of eyes!
- I think that if you find corrections or updates to pages (For example, Acht's skills being dramatically different!) it's good to just go ahead and make the corrections- slap in the new text and pop on that untranslated template- or whatever else is applicable! I'm generally pretty good about checking the changes, so I can adjust the romaji/tl etc as necessary. Just an edit note like "Hey, this skill changed!" or something works fine!
- I noticed you corrected a few things on Fuzzy's page for example, and I'm appreciative of the double checking. A lot of the early text we have was ripped in bulk with a few volunteers with OCR from screenshots and not all of it has been compared 1:1 with in-game, so there's a few typos/punctuation differences (full width, half width, etc, 一 vs ー, small vowels vs big, all that kinda stuff) from what we ripped to base game. I admit I also tend to go too fast sometimes and autocomplete- so editing passes are always good to have.
- Also about the missing romaji, I took care of that this morning (I hope?). It was just the two characters that I noticed (Makoto, Raquel), but let me know if there were any others.
- We don't really have a translation for Meifang's trait 2 because we're not particularly sure what the Chinese there is supposed to be (although we've workshopped some ideas in the past- so I might just pop in our best guess...)
I have been debating about this topic for quite a while, and with release of Kagura, it's probably a good time to check it.
All characters have traits, and among those traits there are some which affect character stats. In attempt to make things easier for a player, the game is applying those stat changes right away, outside of battle. Not a bad idea on its own, except that some players might not realize that and expect that those traits would be applied on top of stats they see in game. To name a few characters - Linhua (20% DEF) or Mei (5% ATK to water characters), there is more of them.
Originally, I have been adding raw stats, before traits are applied, but it seemed that some players were puzzled why numbers don't match ones the game shows. At some point I started to add stats same way the game shows (with changes from traits), but current release of Kagura just makes things really awkward, where 50% ATK two turn bonus is applied outside of battle, making him look stronger than he actually is.
So, should something be done about those? Can't say I have good proposals but to name one - show raw numbers, and use hover tooltips to show game values, or maybe switch between numbers on click. Also, this trait issue also exists for skill cooldowns (Djeeta and Kagura, the game shows cooldowns for their skills with applied reduction). Anon (talk) 12:31, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Hey! I think perhaps setting up a third row underneath max stats for "Effective Max Stats" (or something along those lines) that takes in account modifiers from passives (like how the game displays it) and have a hover tooltip that has "taking in account the activation of passives", so that the current Max Stats row can be for the raw stats as originally intended. Perhaps renaming it to "Raw Max Stats" or something...? I'm welcome to suggestions too, and I'll poke around to see what other options we could go with as well.
- For the cooldown issue, I'm not sure what an elegant solution would be, I'll have to get back to you on that. Hachimitsu (talk) 12:58, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
- Hi. So, I gave a try to come up with some actual proposal and mocked up this sample. Two tables - raw and combined stats - which are flipped by tab buttons on the right, with combined ones by default (which anyone can fill in, not just me). If only combined values are filled - hide buttons and show sole table the same way as it is right now.
- And for cooldowns, I'd probably just leave them as they are right now, raw numbers. Anon (talk) 08:05, 20 October 2021 (UTC)